| | fucking_shut_up (![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif?v=92.1){kind=small} fucking_shut_up) wrote in ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/community.gif?v=92.1){kind=small} wesleyan, |
AUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!
What the fuck is with all the transphobic nonsense on the anonymous confession board? cut that shit out. Especially these new assholes trying to dictate that no one ever use gender neutral pronouns. i guess being a transphobic asshole on you're own time i sort of understand, but trying to enforce it on everyone? no. shut the fuck up. no transphobic holocaust denier is ever going to be able to control the way i speak, no matter how much they whine about human decency being too "pc". i honestly don't give a shit that marginalized voices being reckognized makes you uncomfortable. no, scratch that. i am passionately opposed to you EVER being comfortable. no peace for you until your grave, motherfucker.
October 22 2005, 18:40:34 UTC 6 years ago
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Anonymous
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October 22 2005, 21:18:26 UTC 6 years ago
People should seriously just hug more.
October 23 2005, 06:47:44 UTC 6 years ago
Wow. Seriously, the most PC thing ever. I could say get over it, but that would seem insensitive.
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Anonymous
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October 22 2005, 21:49:22 UTC 6 years ago
I seriously learn something new every day.
identity = pronounHuh. Interesting.
October 23 2005, 02:13:31 UTC 6 years ago
Re: I seriously learn something new every day.
Are you being serious?Pronouns may and often do reflect people's identities, but they certainly aren't equivalent. Using male pronouns doesn't mean people identify as men, and not all trans people (or even all genderqueer people) want people using gender neutral pronouns for them, and so on and so forth.
October 23 2005, 02:16:34 UTC 6 years ago
Re: I seriously learn something new every day.
I'm saying, this fine gentleman seems to equate hating gender-neutral pronouns with hating the people to whom they refer, which is fallacious in the highest degree. I was being sarcastic.6 years ago
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Anonymous
October 22 2005, 22:13:20 UTC 6 years ago
Regardless of how offensive you find others' opinions to be, you're not going to make them listen to your point of view by telling them to shut the fuck up. Getting into an anonymous screaming match on the internet is not going to convince someone to start using gender neutral pronouns.
Ranting definitely has its place, but if you actually want to accomplish anything, try putting forth rational, intelligent arguments and actually showing a little respect for the people with whom you disagree. Most of them object more to radical methods of persuasion rather than to the actual issues themselves.
October 22 2005, 22:37:08 UTC 6 years ago
rational, civil discourse is only useful when a conflict arises out of something vague and squishy enough for an after school special. comments like "i think gender neutral pronouns are stupid" and "i hate transpeople" arean't just coming from people who "just need to learn how to love".
you wouldnt suggest someone sit down and talk to a methed out skinhead with a swastika tatoo coming at hir with a knife. you'd hopefully not object when said person ducks the knife and then renders hir attacker neutralized. its not about "making them see". its about surviving the fucking attack.
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Anonymous
October 22 2005, 23:15:58 UTC 6 years ago
*sigh* I don't know why I'm getting involved in this. There's a reason that I won't touch that anonymous-comments thread with a ten-foot pole... and listening to other people spewing so much hate at each other just depresses me.
October 23 2005, 02:41:48 UTC 6 years ago
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Anonymous
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October 23 2005, 05:28:13 UTC 6 years ago
It really is as simple as being an issue of respect. This is how I explain gender-neutral pronouns to my friends. No, ze and hir have not necessarily entered every part of my life (I do not use them on papers, etc.), but if someone wants to be referred to using such pronouns, then that is the identity of that person and one that I will respect. That's it people.
I can't speak for queer people, but I'd bet that it's harsh to realize that someone doesn't respect your identity, and will say so under the veil of anonymity. One could see this is a great problem with having a "confession post", but that's another argument altogether. Personally, I think everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, but realize that it's a double-edged sword--if someone posts about not liking transpeople, then it is to be expected for someone else to lash back about that.
Anonymous
October 23 2005, 07:40:06 UTC 6 years ago
October 23 2005, 19:47:35 UTC 6 years ago
October 24 2005, 02:03:48 UTC 6 years ago
It keeps becoming such a heated topic here and elsewhere at Wes because the majority of students here are not really part of the queer or trans communities. But, nonetheless, they are self-righteous liberal people who resent the implication that they're bigots or in any way perpetuating oppression and hate. I'm guilty of this too -- it's a knee-jerk response to say, "Hey, no I'm not!" when someone suggests you're doing something that your upbringing has taught you is bad (and we almost all learned from day one that bigatory and hate are very, very bad).
It's also understandable that people would lash out against being lashed out it. Again, it's a knee-jerk response. I mean, part of my education at Wes has been quelling that response and trying to think critically about how maybe I am perpetuating systems of privilege and oppression. But I'd be lying if I said I haven't indulged my "Hey, no I'm not!" response too.
Unfortunately, I don't have any good solution. I can't fault either side "side" of this "debate" for its actions, so I suppose the this comment has actually been manifestly unhelpful. Meh.
October 24 2005, 05:12:05 UTC 6 years ago
Note: I'm not meaning to troll here, nor am I denying the use of GNPs for those who see fit to use them. I am simply asking for a rationale. Comments such as "OMFG TRANSHATER!" will not be paid any attention to, so don't waste your breath/typing. Thanks!
October 24 2005, 07:11:22 UTC 6 years ago
are you objecting to refering to someone by the pronouns they prefer? because if so, it'll be really hard to avoid the "OMG TRANSHATER" response. of course you should respect someone's prefered identity. thats just called not being a dick.
if you're comfortable being a guy, awesome. rock it. be the best damn guy you can be. i dont understand what that has to do with anyone else, or how you view their gender
October 24 2005, 16:39:00 UTC 6 years ago
Gender is a self-concieved construction. However, to define "gender", you need something else to compare it to. If you were the only person to exist on the entire planet, what consequence would your "gender" have? In that vein, a person creates for themselves what I'm calling a gender-view, how they percieve the world,and themselves, in terms of gender.
As I see it, gender neutral pronouns come from the fact that people are uncomfortable with the current gender-view they have accquired, so they need to redefine it to make themselves feel comfortable.
However, (since I used the example above) there are people who are perfectly fine defining gender from a purely biological perspective(you have female organs, and therefore you are a female. You have male organs, therefore you are a female.) This way of defining "gender" is no more right or wrong than other ways of defining gender, they are all particularly arbitrary.
I am not denying the use of gender neutral pronouns, nor am I objecting to using them if someone insists. However, by insisting on the use of gender neutral pronouns, they have forced me to re-define my gender-view to fit their gender-view.(otherwise, I would not use gender-netural pronouns, because I would believe they simply don't fit in my gender-view.) I see requiring the use of gender-neutral pronouns as a violation of my "right" to hold my own independent gender-view, just as you have a right to hold your own independent gender-view. The conflict arises when someone who uses gender-neutral pronouns lops "ze" and "hir" upon me, as I lop "him/her" and "he/she" upon them. When our gender-views conflict, how does one justify which is the "right" one to use? I am not going to accept the opinion that because you are in the minority, the societally prevailing option loses; nor will I accept the opinion that because my view is societally dominant, it is correct for all people. My question is how do you reconcile the fact that when two gender-views collide, there is no way to proceed without marginalizing one or the other?
Anonymous
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